Stock Club Podcast

Stock Club: The Future of iBuying ft. Jason Moser

Real estate is a difficult area for beginners to crack, but investment in housing stocks with the help of iBuying has never been easier.

In this special episode of Stock Club, MyWallSt is delighted to welcome back Jason Moser from The Motley Fool to talk about one of the hottest trends on the current market — iBuying.

Listen in as the team chats about:

  • What’s going on in the U.S. housing market at the moment
  • How Zillow(NASDAQ: Z) and Redfin (NASDAQ: RDFN) managed to redefine the real estate landscape
  • The rise of iBuying and companies like Opendoor (NASDAQ: OPEN) 

…and which of these companies will lead the charge over the next few years.

Rory
Welcome to this week’s Stock Club. This week, I’ll be taking over hosting duties from James, and I’m joined by our Founder, Emmet Savage and a very special guest, our good friend from The Motley Fool, Jason Moser.

Jason, welcome back to our Pod.

Jason
Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rory
It’s been far too long!

Jason
Well, it has, it has. But thanks to the miracles of modern technology, you know, we can connect anytime, anywhere.

Rory
Yeah, well, we’re always happy to have you. But of course, we’ve asked you this week on for a very specific reason. And that is because today we’re talking about real estate and what can only be described as a kind of explosion in what’s called iBuying, in which technology companies are effectively buying homes from people directly and selling them on to third parties. But before we get into the individual businesses, Jason, what is going on in the US real estate market right now?

Jason
It’s tough to come up with the word that really does it justice, because it’s been impressive to say the least. If you’re a homeowner, it’s a wonderful time, if you are looking to buy a home, I would imagine it has to be pretty miserable at this point because the housing market has exploded. I think we’ve seen news — I think also Canada is witnessing something very similar — but I think a lot of this really started right as all the pandemic stuff started back in early 2020, I guess.

And we just seem to shift in the way people are working, working and prioritizing their lives and what they ultimately want to do and where they want to do it. And so we’ve just seen a lot of folks getting out there and the demand for homes has just shot through the roof to supply is still very limited. But what we’ve seen here with the metrics, the core logic, the Case-Shiller index, it’s rising anywhere in that 18% to 20% range. Home prices now are 41% higher than the last peak in 2006 during the housing bubble then.

And so what it’s resulted in is just this tremendous uptake in home prices. It’s resulted in, I think some fear of missing out, right, that FOMO. And when you get that right, home buying is an emotional process, and those emotions start to really churn in conditions like this. It’s just resulted in these amazing gains in the housing market I mean if it’s sustainable, that remains to be seen. I feel like at least the banks are writing better loans. I could certainly speak to having gone through the home buying and selling process before, we refinanced our home here recently.

We also opened up a home equity line of credit, not all that long ago for a home renovation project. The paperwork that we had to provide, the documentation we had to provide the bank, I was astounded at how much they were asking of us, and I was astounded because I mean, we’ve been through the process; before my wife and I are both fully employed, excellent credit scores, just very, very low-risk borrowers. And we still had to provide everything but the kitchen sink for them to be able to prove those results.

Honestly, I mean, it was frustrating at the time, but I think that’s good. It’s nice to see that banks are being so strict with their lending, as opposed to ten years ago where you could just walk into any bank and get a loan for anything. That doesn’t seem to necessarily be the case now, and that’s good.

Emmet
Jason, that’s really interesting because really, you’re speaking to two guys whose understanding of domestic rental and purchasing has been largely informed by living here in Ireland where we are. And I think it’s fair to say that the process, you know, or at least the pricing stability over here in very large part, is dysfunctional, which is down to a massive lag between supply and demand. They’re entirely out of phase. But my perception was that in the US, that supply demand curve had pretty much hit the perfect intersection. So I’m really surprised to hear that prices have shot up something like 40% in such a short time.

Jason
I mean, really, I think it just does boil down to the supply variable of the equation. I mean supply right now is just extremely limited. So we’re certainly seeing that language and a lot of the home builder’s earnings calls. It’s a good time, I think, to be a home builder. I mean, you’re probably going to be busy for a while, but yeah, I think really that’s been the core problem is supplies is just not there right now. And we’ve got a lot of people here that are in a position now where they can make, in theory, go out and buy a home.

But again, like I said, it’s becoming more difficult because the prices have gone up so much. And you’re seeing a lot of all cash offers, waving a lot of the requirements, like home inspections and what not I mean, they just are going in there buying site unseen. So there is sort of a speculative dynamic to the environment today, but it doesn’t seem to be as bad as it was ten years ago, but it’s definitely still there.

Emmet
It’s amazing, because last night I was reading The LA Times as you do when you live in Dublin. And they have this feature called the Reality Check Insights, and they asked a respondent to rate various components for whether these components were essential to realizing the American Dream. And only 45% of their survey base, which was a big representative base, believed that home ownership is now part of the American dream. And I was really surprised at that because they said, like in the same survey, like a third of people believed that doing better than your parents was essential, and only 13% thought that becoming wealthy was an essential part of the American dream.

And it said that in the last ten years, 7 million new homes were built in the United States and left me wondering, well, we see another 7 million new homes built into ten years ahead if it’s less related to fulfilling the American dream.

Jason
Yeah, that’s an interesting question. I think when you’re younger, you have a different view of the world, right? I mean, when you’re in your 20s, your early 30s, you’re thinking about saying it a little bit differently. And as you get older and you decide, maybe you want to settle down or you have kids or you grow family. Then your attitude starts to change a little bit. Your vision of what you might want your future to look like changes a little bit. I do think that pandemic is in play a little bit there. But I do think also that we’ve witnessed this change in the employment landscape, right. A lot of workplaces are now incorporating hybrid work or fully remote work into their models, which then means that employees have the opportunity to kind of live anywhere they want.

Emmet
Right.

Jason
People can pick up and leave. There is a tremendous convenience renting, right. I think we’ve all been there, right. You have a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility. Whereas if you buy a home, you’re kind of settling down, you’re setting some roots. And that is a big difference. So I think there probably is a little bit of that dynamic in play. But it does feel like homeownership maybe isn’t quite the priority that it used to be. But I also think that once you buy that first home and you realize the windows of opportunity, that homeownership then opens, that can start to change your attitude a little bit. It gives you more financial freedom, really. I mean, you have the opportunity to do more as a homeowner here because you have that equity in that home. But it’s kind of like having kids. I can tell you about it all day long, but you don’t really understand it until you’re actually in the middle of it.

Emmet
But you know, and I don’t mean to steal your job here, Rory, but I have a question which is really like on that very point. Can you describe to me in just a few sentences the choices that an American homeowner has when it comes to selling their property. Every country brings its own kind of like this, just everyone does it a certain way. What is that in America today?

Jason
Well, I mean, having gone through the process a few times, what it really boils down to is: number one, I think you need to identify where you want to go next, particularly now because it’s so difficult. It really is a seller’s market. I mean, to go out there, buy a home. It’s not like you can just in a house you like and they go buy it. You’re going to have competing bids. So I think really identifying where you want to go first and foremost, and then identifying really what you feel like you’re going to be able to get for your home, what needs to be done to your home to make it more attractive for iBuyers.

Again, I think now that’s less of a concern because so much demand is out there so you can sell your house, probably without having to do much of anything to it. Now that you’re going to probably take a little bit of a hit on what you’re going to be able to get for it. But I think that’s the primary consideration is not only figuring out what what’s an acceptable offer for your own, but then identifying where you want to go and then really the traditional model for so long, you identify a real estate agent, you find an agent to represent you to then get that transaction taken care of. That clearly is changing. And we’ll talk more about that with the iBuying process. But really, I think it all starts with identifying where you want to go and then finding a real estate agent that you trust will represent your best interest.

Rory
So you mentioned iBuying there, Jason. Obviously, that is the hot topic in the industry right now, but let’s just take a few steps back. I think if you were talking about tech-enabled real estate businesses a couple of years ago, you were really talking about kind of two public traded companies, kind of Zillow and Redfin are the ones that really spring to mind. And both those businesses were kind of harnessing technology and the Internet to help people buy and sell homes. But they’re both doing very different things at the core right? Give us a kind of brief overview of those two business models before this iBuying craze kind of kicked off.

Jason
Yeah, Zillow, to me, was always so it’s been such a fascinating story, like when it first came to public, I was kind of I would say I was skeptical. It just seemed like a platform with a bunch of homes. But the information was lacking. I mean, there was a lot of misinformation on those platforms, and we would look at your home, for example, on Zillow, and we would say, well, that information is not correct. Where did they get that? We have three bedrooms, not two. There are four bathrooms, not three. What’s going on here?

And so that was a little bit frustrating at first, but that was also Zillow really just getting started. And that has improved. I mean, they get a lot of their information from those MLS listings, which are basically just a gathering of all sorts of different real estate markets. But ultimately, yes, Zillow at its core was and still is to a degree. At least, I think it’s the best app out there for finding a home. I mean, they’ve really done a great job in making the information more accurate, but ultimately, that’s what it was.

It was this model where they had this app that just displayed homes all over the country. Real estate agents could then sign up through their Premier agent program to become agents with Zillow and being able to participate in that market that they had built. And that’s the way it was for a long time. And it worked out well. But it seemed like for a very long time, their former CEO, Spencer Rascoff, I became less confident in his ability really to take the business forward. And that’s ultimately what — I owned Zillow shares for a short time personally, and I became a little bit disenchanted with leadership there, which ultimately, I was very happy to see Rich Barton take over is the CEO for the company.

He’s the co-founder of the business, took over as CEO several years back, and he, I think, was really the one who spearheaded this movement to iBuying and diversifying their business model, so to speak, because they also realized that with the advent of businesses like Redfin, for example, which is similar to Zillow, but different in that Redfin really is running its own sort of agency, Zillow realized hey, listen, there’s going to be some competition out there. So there was some consolidation, right? Zillow bought Trulia how; Redfin introducing a similar but a little bit of a different business model in their agency approach.

They both worked out very well. Redfin being the smaller of the two. But it’s been just traditionally such a difficult market to disrupt, for whatever reason, from a consumer’s perspective, it’s great you can find anything. I understand why the agents don’t like Zillow, right? The agents who have been firmly established in their communities for so long. I mean, here in the States, it’s not uncommon to see, you know, real estate agents plant signs everywhere. There’s a lot of advertising on the agents party here. And the Internet has obviously disrupted so many things in our lives. It just seems like now it’s really starting to take hold in the real estate market and ultimately, I think that’s a good thing.

Rory
It sounds like kind of you’re saying Zillow either kind of, I suppose, advantage and discovery. But Redfin probably had some kind of structural cost advantages because they weren’t paying big commissions.

Jason
I think that’s a very, very good way to put it. I think that’s exactly right. Zillow made discovery so easy and so pleasant. I mean, like you know people just look at Zillow just for fun, right? I mean, they may not even be in the market for a house, but they go to Zillow just to look at it to see. I mean, right. I mean, they use that term real estate porn, right? I mean, it kind of feels that way. People just look at Zillow just to look at it and read it.

Rory
My partner is definitely into the old property porn.

Jason
Yeah. Well, I mean, my wife still loves looking at it, and I mean, we’re firmly settled, right? We’re not in the market to buy a house, and I’m guilty as well. I look at it sometimes too, and think, well, hey, maybe ten years down the line, we want to move somewhere. What does this place look like? And so discovery is just tremendous on Zillow into your point about Redfin they went in there, and I think this is what really got agents attention. As Redfin has been trying to disrupt that pricing model in basically bringing the cost of the transaction down for iBuyers and sellers.

You hire that agent. But, man, you’re paying an awful lot of money to that agent to make that sale happen. And then you’re also typically going to be paying those transaction costs in some form on the purchase as well. So Redfin really working to bring those costs down. And that has been a threat to the traditional agency model as well.

Rory
So moving forward, I think things kind of really started changing in this space around 2018-2019, when a company called Opendoor came onto the scene. And Opendoor really was one of the pioneers of this new way of conducting real estate transactions. This whole iBuying model. Emmet, you’ve been a fan of Opendoor for quite a while. I know it’s a stock you hold in your Horizon portfolio. For those who don’t know what Opendoor does, can you give us a kind of brief overview of this whole iBuying model?

Emmet
Sure. So iBuying is a new movement that makes up a tiny portion of the overall housing market in the U.S. I think currently purchasing at the moment of half of 1% of homes across the whole U.S. metropolitan areas are sold via iBuying. So iBuying what does the I stand for? Intelligent buying.

Jason
What does the I in iPods stand for, an i in iPhone or iTune, it’s something I don’t know.

Emmet
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Opendoor claimed to be the leaders and the inventors of iBuying, which is a process where you go to Opendoor.com, you put in your home address, you kind of put in a few other parameters, number of bedrooms and kind of state of repair or disrepair as it were. And within 24 hours, they will give you an option to buy your home that you can accept or reject. And they will basically buy your home from you. They will drop a team on it, they’ll uplifted somewhat. They have fixed costs for improving the home, and they will sell it at a later date.

And actually, it’s funny, I had an iBuying need before I have even heard of the idea. My wife and I sold our first home about ten years ago and I knocked into our next door neighbor to tell her that we were selling just out of good manners and she said, oh, do you mind if my daughter has a look at it? And the next day we shook on a deal with her that resulted in us having zero sales time, slightly lower than market rate, but no long process involving a viewing public walking through our home every Saturday or logging on to MyHome.ie, which is like the Zillow of Ireland to look inside the home. So the deal was done really quickly. Zero friction, no headache. And that is what you get with iBuying now. And actually, Jason, there’s someone I’m sure you know, from Fool Them called Chad Ferguson. And I was chatting with Chad, and he told me that he and his wife sold her home last year via Opendoor. And you know, I can’t recall the first time I heard of somebody using Amazon, but I will remember Chad because I’m convinced that in ten years from now, iBuying will be the preferred method of selling for most Americans because of the efficiencies that brings in.

And I think the differential that exists at the moment between iBuying and let’s say, traditional real estate methods will narrow as these kind of businesses get more and more and more efficient in.

Jason
I think you’re right. And then just to confirm the I does stand for Internet, which makes a lot of sense. Internet.

Emmet
Yeah, but they’re all out of now. They’ve all got an iBuying wings. Sorry, but Opendoor, they only do iBuying. But Redfin and Zillow now have a very fast growing iBuying kind of section to their websites. And I think that is indicative of a growing trend.

Jason
Absolutely. I think you’ve seen everything that the Internet has done. It’s given us a new way to value our time, right. Listen at the first home that my wife and I ever bought, this was back in 2005. And the back story here is that we were in Egypt. We were living in Cairo, Egypt, for three years for my wife’s job. She worked in the State Department. And so we were just kind of we just been married recently. We had our first child on the way. And while we were there in Egypt, we were saving money as we were working at the embassy.

And we thought, okay, this is a good time to buy a home. We actually bought our first home, it was essentially an iBuying process. We found the home that we wanted on the Internet. We toured the house on the Internet with pictures. This was 2005. They still even had this capability then. We toured the home via the Internet. We found a real estate agent in that area via the Internet, and we essentially worked everything out online. We actually didn’t even see the house until we got back to the States to go close on the actual purchase.

But we had enough faith in everything that we had seen, that the process here is such that inspections have to be done and things need to be accounted for and boxes need to be checked. I mean, we knew going in there are enough folks in the process there that you can’t just go buy a clunker of a house. So we felt confident even back then, and that, to me, was just the sort of that was like, wow, that is the way it should be going forward. And I certainly understand why agents felt threatened by that. So they’ve been trying to figure out exactly how to pivot and become more of a part of it, because I agree with you totally. I think that convenience — I mean, just like the Internet has given us a new way to value our time — I mean, the home buying process is no exception.

Emmet
I have 3 very current facts about iBuying here in front of me. The first is that iiBuyers purchase less expensive homes than a typical home buyer. And the last quarter iiBuyers, according to Redfin, the last quarter iiBuyers bought homes for a median of $302,000, by comparison, to let’s call it the typical American home buyer was $320,000. The second fact that is really current to my mind, because I really don’t believe this will be the case for much longer is that iBuyers are selling homes in 13 days, which is a record pace.

The typical time to sell home in the US was 31 days. But iBuying it is 13 days. So it is definitely faster. And then, of course, iBuyers offer lower commission to agents when they sell homes. You know, I think that these stats right now, I think we’re going to see a vast improvement in those three dimensions, which is I think people will scale up they’ll buy more expensive homes in a shorter time, and that the commissions that are offered to agent will be further pressurized. And that kind of triangle is putting a huge weight on the shoulders of traditional real estate agents.

Rory
Yeah, so both Redfin and Zillow now getting into iBuying — Zillow certainly kind of dove head first into it back in 2018, when Rich Barton came back, as you said, Jason. There’s a great quote from then that said they were going to target the “super empowered smartphone wielding Uberized consumer.” And just three years later, it is the largest segment of their business. It’s grown 70% in the last quarter and Redfin took kind of a more cautious approach, but they’re certainly exploring it now. With all these three businesses now in the space, I’ll ask this to both of you, what do we think? Does one company have any structural advantage here, or is it too early to tell or is this such a nascent opportunity that they could all win?

Jason
Emmet, I’ll let you go first.

Emmet
Well, for a start, I think they can all win to just go straight to the bottom line. At the moment, the market is looking at them quite differently when you look at how they’re priced. If you trend, how the three stocks, the share price has gone over the last year. It’s very similar, it seems like they’re all coupled or tripled, as it were. But market cap of Zillow is $25 billion. Opendoor’s $11 billion, Redfin is $5 billion. They have different ownership structures and return on equity. But I do believe that each of them will use what they’ve got to their advantage.

So Opendoor’s, I suppose USP, is this is the only thing we do. This is our speciality. We are the best. We will do it fast as we will do it in and at least you can change your mind halfway through the process with no cancellation fees. So they have a lot of USP that’s quite appealing if you’re committed to the iBuying route. But for Zillow, the amount of intelligence that they’ve built to Jason’s point is just unbelievable. I looked at Zillow. I’ve looked at Zillow’s app for at least ten years, just kind of having a look around properties in the U.S. I used to own a property in America late 90s and kind of caught my interest from that point and then Redfin for me. I’m not sure it’s the one that I’m not quite there yet. I don’t know. What about you, Jason?

Jason
No, I think you’re right. And I think all three can win. I think the main reason for that is — and I’m going to throw a number out here that is just kind of astounding to think about it — but there’s $1.6 trillion of real estate sold here in the U.S. annually. You guys know when we’re looking for investment ideas, one of the things we love to find is a large and growing market opportunity, and that is $1.6 trillion. It’s a pretty big market opportunity, I’d say.

I do think, to my mind, I think the toughest part of this equation is the discovery side, and I think you made that point to them. And I think with Zillow, I think they have a little bit of a leg up because they’ve been on the toughest part first in building out the discovery, building out the technology, making it so easy. They were really kind of first in that space. So there’s a brand equity there that Redfin and Opendoor simply don’t possess. I think from that perspective and the fact that you’ve got the co-founder in Rich Barton back in the driver’s seat there, to me, Zillow is probably the more attractive of the three.

But it’s not to say that all three can’t win. I just think that they’ve done so much hard work for the past decade, plus in building out that app, the discovery, getting that information correct and really taking what has been a very fragmented regional market and being able to consolidate it at ultimately a global level. I mean, you can look at Zillow from anywhere in the world, right? I mean, they basically bring the US housing markets to anyone anywhere, and that is tremendous, I think, but yeah, I think they’re all trying to do it a little bit differently. I just think Zillow, that David Gardner sort of first-mover advantage. I mean, I think there’s something there for sure.

Emmet
Well, on your point about Zillow, there’s a very interesting low-tech website called iBuyersstats.com, which basically week on week shows public information plotted on the three big iBuying websites, which, according to iBuyersstats, Zillow, Opendoor and Offerpad and Zillow have just accelerated. So Opendoor have really solid growth in the number of houses listed. It’s the shape of a curve you want to see in an investment. It’s just growing, growing, growing week in week out, but only a couple of blips, exceptions. Zillow put their foot to the floor, and you can just see the number of homes that they have is accelerating.

Now, Opendoor still have the lead. It seems like right now today Opendoor of something like about 3,700 homes listed as Zillow has about two thousand and a half thousand homes. But if we go back to just kind of March time, Zillow had a handful of them, just had a handful. So I do agree with you. I think, as you say, that the part of deciding where you want to be and knowing the locality you want to live in and kind of the supplemental information that you consider. Zillow has a huge lead on that. But I still I’m quite an Opendoor fan because they are the first mover in their field.

Jason
Yes, I think that I like Opendoor’s focus. That’s what makes it so attractive to me is they really are focusing on that one specific opportunity. And while it sounds so attractive on the customer side, the consumer side, it’s a seamless sort of process. IBuying, it really makes it easier. It relieves a lot of the friction. It’s hard work, and it requires a lot of capital on the Opendoor side for them to actually do that stuff. It just requires a lot. It requires a lot of capital. It requires a lot of manpower.

You’re having to — I mean there’s so many hands in the cookie jar when it comes to buying and selling a home here in the U.S., it’s just a long and convoluted process, understanding that these businesses are trying to relieve that and make it more seamless. But it just goes to the point that it is very hard. It requires a lot of manpower, a lot of capital. And I think that that to me. That’s why Opendoor seems so compelling is because that really is their focus. Going back to what we were saying earlier, it really does feel like this is the direction the world is headed. So then you like to see them with that focus.

Rory
Just looking back on a kind of broader point of view. And this might kind of spoil everyone’s fun, but this whole buying homes, holding them on your balance sheet, it seems to be working out quite well at the moment. But surely this is a huge risk. It’s not really that long ago that we had a certain financial crisis, part of which was fed by rapidly rising house prices and speculation in this space. How comfortable should investors be with this kind of model? I mean, could another boom and bust cycle just kind of wipe any of these businesses? Is that possible?

Jason
Definitely possible. I would say you start looking towards the investing environment to see if — are we, will we see the securitization of these homes into these sort of exotic financial instruments, then enable more speculation and sort of like this NFT and crypto and meme stock craze. I mean, you see people going in their sight unseen and speculating. I think that’s the key is to just to pay attention to that speculation because for the businesses themselves, the key is to just keep that inventory turning. They don’t want to hang on to those houses very long at all.

So kind of like with retailers. If you start seeing those inventory levels, just keep on inflating and the revenue is not following, then, yeah, that does become a little concerning. But I think ultimately you need to look at the overall investing environment to make sure we’re not seeing some more macro trends that could be contributing to risky and speculative behavior.

Rory
Yeah, we kind of discussed this. We were talking about Robinhood. This is a business that really kind of prided itself on removing friction and sometimes removing friction isn’t always the best thing to do. There might be a case for adding a bit of friction in there.

Jason
I mean, that’s a very good point, because at the end of the day, we’re talking about a house. I mean, this is one of the biggest, if not the biggest purchase you’ll make in your life. There’s a lot involved with owning a home. I mean, it’s a tremendous responsibility. I mean, that’s why it’s not for everyone. I mean, there’re just folks out there who really shouldn’t own them, right. It’s just too much of a responsibility, and they don’t need to be taking that on. I mean, there’s just a lot that goes into it, and I think that’s something worth remembering. It’s not like you just buy it and then send it back if you don’t like it.

Rory
Seems like that’s where we’re going. And guys, this has been a fascinating conversation. Jason, you’ve introduced me and by proxy our users to some fantastic business over the last few years. I couldn’t possibly let you go without asking. Are there any companies on your radar at the moment our listeners should be keeping an eye for adding to their watch list?

Jason
Sure thing. I’ll give you — as a matter of fact, I will tell you the stock that I purchased most recently, and I just bought this, I guess it was last week, so the trading guidelines I can start talking about it now. So there’s a business called C3AI, and it’s a relatively new IPO. It’s just been public for a short period of time, but I focused a lot on my job at The Fool on augmented and virtual reality 5G, the digital economy, and connectivity. So I always kind of look at 5G being sort of the sun in the solar system and all of the planets orbiting that sun are the opportunities.

You’ve got 5G’s, the sun, and you’ve got artificial intelligence, machine learning and virtual and augmented reality and Internet of things and all of that stuff. Those are the opportunities that sort of orbit that connectivity sun. And so C3AI is in the business of artificial intelligence, and they have an interesting approach to it. Their customers are enterprises, so big companies, and ultimately they have a sort of a model-based approach towards helping these enterprises incorporate the benefits of artificial intelligence and their models.

So a young business. But you talk about where the direction, where the world is headed. And I think we’re only going to see more and more businesses bring in that artificial intelligence machine learning dynamic to their operations. And we saw 85% growth in their customer base over this most recent quarter, which was encouraging. So a very young business, one that you look at the stock chart when it first went public. I mean, there was some speculation there, and the stock has come back to reality, thankfully. And that was kind of what really sealed the deal for me was seeing that stock come back to reality. So I went ahead and took the plunge. But yes, C3AI, the ticker is AI.

Emmet
Nice plug and play, AI, that’s what we like. By the way. Jason, terrific to speak to you. It’s been too long. You know, only a small selection of our listeners will recall that you and your longtime colleague, Brendan Matthews, used to produce the highest quality pitch videos from MyWallSt, which at that time we used to embed in our app. So my question is, are you two guys still talking?

Jason
Oh, absolutely. As a matter of fact, yeah. Brendan. So Brendan, yeah, we’ve had so much fun with you guys through the years, and it’s just I always say that we need to get over there to Ireland. It’s a good excuse for me to go play golf for a week, and I can hang out and talk stocks with you guys. And hopefully, when all this stuff clears up, we’ll be able to make that happen. But, yeah, Brendan is still with The Fool. He’s working now with Motley Fool Ventures and so sort of a venture capital side of the business that we have. So he’s taken his investing acumen to that side of the business, helping us build that out. But, yeah, Brendan and I talk frequently. Good friends have a lot in common, and he’s doing very well.

Emmet
Well. Me and Rory only communicate through our legal teams or Slack when he’s had a glass of wine.

Rory
We don’t even tell each other what stocks we’re looking at anymore. We’re all so cagey, “no, that’sthat’s for my service.”

Jason
Hey, man, you got to protect yourself, right?

Emmet
Yeah, survival of the fittest, C3AI.

Jason
Looking out for number 1!

Rory
Anyway, thank you so much again, Jason. If you would like to hear more fantastic insights from Jason, you can follow him on Twitter @TMFJMO and you might get the occasional watercolor thrown in there as well.

Jason
Yeah. Now that we’ve got this construction done on our house, I’ll be able to get back down in my studio and try to finish up a painting that I’ve had sitting down there for a little while.

Rory
Okay. Well, thank you so much, Jason. That’s all from us this week at MyWallSt. Check us next week when James will be back and normal service will resume. Goodbye.

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